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	<title>Comments on: Workshop on tests of gravity in Case Western &#8211; day 2 and Arkani-Hamed&#8217;s talk</title>
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	<link>http://www.nonequilibrium.net/workshop-tests-gravity-case-western-day-2-arkanihameds-talk/</link>
	<description>Cosmology, turbulence, markets, non-equilibrium QFT and much more. No nonsense, just science</description>
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		<title>By: Workshop on tests of gravity in Case Western - day 2: aether and modified gravity &#124; NEQNET: Non-equilibrium Phenomena</title>
		<link>http://www.nonequilibrium.net/workshop-tests-gravity-case-western-day-2-arkanihameds-talk/comment-page-1/#comment-8928</link>
		<dc:creator>Workshop on tests of gravity in Case Western - day 2: aether and modified gravity &#124; NEQNET: Non-equilibrium Phenomena</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 May 2009 19:55:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.nonequilibrium.net/?p=4051#comment-8928</guid>
		<description>[...] talk afternoon - titled &#8220;observational hints of IR modified gravity&#8221;. His talk followed Nima&#8217;s, and the latter almost completely blew me away, so I was somewhat unfocused during Justin&#8217;s [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] talk afternoon &#8211; titled &#8220;observational hints of IR modified gravity&#8221;. His talk followed Nima&#8217;s, and the latter almost completely blew me away, so I was somewhat unfocused during Justin&#8217;s [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Dmitry</title>
		<link>http://www.nonequilibrium.net/workshop-tests-gravity-case-western-day-2-arkanihameds-talk/comment-page-1/#comment-8833</link>
		<dc:creator>Dmitry</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 May 2009 07:59:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.nonequilibrium.net/?p=4051#comment-8833</guid>
		<description>You are all little buggers making fun of old poor fellow who does not know how to talk properly (but at least tries hard) LOL Thanks for the correction anyway, fixed.

&lt;blockquote&gt;So what&#039;s Nima&#039;s comment on Horava&#039;s modified gravity?&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Surprisingly, Horava&#039;s gravity wasn&#039;t mentioned a single time during the workshop, not even by analog people. (And those people I talked to were not aware of it.) Nima didn&#039;t mention it either. 

My personal opinion is the same as Lubos&#039; one he presented above, Horava&#039;s gravity is not subtle since it features superluminal propagation of signals.

By the way, Nima has admitted that the point of view &quot;screw holography and BH entropy, gravity is effective theory, and locality should win in the end&quot; is perfectly legitimate, so whether you accept holographic philosophy or not is a question of taste. My impression is that holography is a good taste, and analog gravity is a bad taste: theory itself tells you something (and this something is very deep), while you prefer to ignore it saying that the theory is approximate anyway.

The second thing is that it wasn&#039;t really proven that the action of Horava theory is reduced to Einstein-Hilbert action in the IR.

Cheers,
Dmitry.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You are all little buggers making fun of old poor fellow who does not know how to talk properly (but at least tries hard) LOL Thanks for the correction anyway, fixed.</p>
<blockquote><p>So what&#8217;s Nima&#8217;s comment on Horava&#8217;s modified gravity?</p></blockquote>
<p>Surprisingly, Horava&#8217;s gravity wasn&#8217;t mentioned a single time during the workshop, not even by analog people. (And those people I talked to were not aware of it.) Nima didn&#8217;t mention it either. </p>
<p>My personal opinion is the same as Lubos&#8217; one he presented above, Horava&#8217;s gravity is not subtle since it features superluminal propagation of signals.</p>
<p>By the way, Nima has admitted that the point of view &#8220;screw holography and BH entropy, gravity is effective theory, and locality should win in the end&#8221; is perfectly legitimate, so whether you accept holographic philosophy or not is a question of taste. My impression is that holography is a good taste, and analog gravity is a bad taste: theory itself tells you something (and this something is very deep), while you prefer to ignore it saying that the theory is approximate anyway.</p>
<p>The second thing is that it wasn&#8217;t really proven that the action of Horava theory is reduced to Einstein-Hilbert action in the IR.</p>
<p>Cheers,<br />
Dmitry.</p>
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		<title>By: Lubos Motl</title>
		<link>http://www.nonequilibrium.net/workshop-tests-gravity-case-western-day-2-arkanihameds-talk/comment-page-1/#comment-8831</link>
		<dc:creator>Lubos Motl</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 May 2009 05:41:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.nonequilibrium.net/?p=4051#comment-8831</guid>
		<description>Isn&#039;t it obvious from Dmitry&#039;s text? The Horava-Lifshitz theory is neither &quot;subtle&quot;, because it has even more generic superluminal signals than DGP that Nima took as his bad enough but still much better example. 

And despite this superluminality, it is not really &quot;nonlocal&quot;, and it has arbitrarily short spatial distances that can&#039;t be measured because in proper gravity, the heavy gadgets needed to see them should collapse into a black hole which is again larger. So the theory violates pretty much every rule that Nima has listed, doesn&#039;t it?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Isn&#8217;t it obvious from Dmitry&#8217;s text? The Horava-Lifshitz theory is neither &#8220;subtle&#8221;, because it has even more generic superluminal signals than DGP that Nima took as his bad enough but still much better example. </p>
<p>And despite this superluminality, it is not really &#8220;nonlocal&#8221;, and it has arbitrarily short spatial distances that can&#8217;t be measured because in proper gravity, the heavy gadgets needed to see them should collapse into a black hole which is again larger. So the theory violates pretty much every rule that Nima has listed, doesn&#8217;t it?</p>
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		<title>By: Lubos Motl</title>
		<link>http://www.nonequilibrium.net/workshop-tests-gravity-case-western-day-2-arkanihameds-talk/comment-page-1/#comment-8830</link>
		<dc:creator>Lubos Motl</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 May 2009 05:35:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.nonequilibrium.net/?p=4051#comment-8830</guid>
		<description>&quot;Deeply flowed&quot; is cute. If you were Chinese, you could also write &quot;deeply fraud&quot;. :-)

I just spoke to God about the possibility to forgive Nima&#039;s sins because what he says about the &quot;subtle&quot; &quot;nonlocality&quot; finally makes sense.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Deeply flowed&#8221; is cute. If you were Chinese, you could also write &#8220;deeply fraud&#8221;. <img src='http://www.nonequilibrium.net/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>I just spoke to God about the possibility to forgive Nima&#8217;s sins because what he says about the &#8220;subtle&#8221; &#8220;nonlocality&#8221; finally makes sense.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Blake Stacey</title>
		<link>http://www.nonequilibrium.net/workshop-tests-gravity-case-western-day-2-arkanihameds-talk/comment-page-1/#comment-8829</link>
		<dc:creator>Blake Stacey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 May 2009 03:34:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.nonequilibrium.net/?p=4051#comment-8829</guid>
		<description>&quot;Deeply flowed&quot; could be a technical term in renormalization group theory.  If it&#039;s not, maybe it should be.  (-:</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Deeply flowed&#8221; could be a technical term in renormalization group theory.  If it&#8217;s not, maybe it should be.  (-:</p>
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		<title>By: SL</title>
		<link>http://www.nonequilibrium.net/workshop-tests-gravity-case-western-day-2-arkanihameds-talk/comment-page-1/#comment-8828</link>
		<dc:creator>SL</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 May 2009 03:09:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.nonequilibrium.net/?p=4051#comment-8828</guid>
		<description>So what&#039;s Nima&#039;s comment on Horava&#039;s modified gravity?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So what&#8217;s Nima&#8217;s comment on Horava&#8217;s modified gravity?</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: metal</title>
		<link>http://www.nonequilibrium.net/workshop-tests-gravity-case-western-day-2-arkanihameds-talk/comment-page-1/#comment-8821</link>
		<dc:creator>metal</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 May 2009 22:16:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.nonequilibrium.net/?p=4051#comment-8821</guid>
		<description>Certainly you mean &quot;deeply flawed&quot; and not &quot;deeply flowed&quot;?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Certainly you mean &#8220;deeply flawed&#8221; and not &#8220;deeply flowed&#8221;?</p>
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