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	<title>Comments on: The very meaning of socialism</title>
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		<title>By: Thomas D</title>
		<link>http://www.nonequilibrium.net/meaning-socialism/comment-page-1/#comment-9188</link>
		<dc:creator>Thomas D</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 20 Jun 2009 22:02:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.nonequilibrium.net/?p=3044#comment-9188</guid>
		<description>So a story must be true because it fits the reader&#039;s preconceptions? Where did this class of socialism-loving Texas Tech students come from - did they fall through a wormhole from the 1930&#039;s?

Although it has nothing really to do with socialism ... there is absolutely no theory of socialism which says that everyone should get exactly the same regardless of who they are and what they do. 

It should be easy enough to check the truth of the story - simply look up the grades of every economics class in TT for the past X years. I guess no-one did that.

Incidentally, can someone explain why the communist USSR produced so many excellent physicists?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So a story must be true because it fits the reader&#8217;s preconceptions? Where did this class of socialism-loving Texas Tech students come from &#8211; did they fall through a wormhole from the 1930&#8242;s?</p>
<p>Although it has nothing really to do with socialism &#8230; there is absolutely no theory of socialism which says that everyone should get exactly the same regardless of who they are and what they do. </p>
<p>It should be easy enough to check the truth of the story &#8211; simply look up the grades of every economics class in TT for the past X years. I guess no-one did that.</p>
<p>Incidentally, can someone explain why the communist USSR produced so many excellent physicists?</p>
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		<title>By: Daniel de Fran?a MTd2</title>
		<link>http://www.nonequilibrium.net/meaning-socialism/comment-page-1/#comment-9184</link>
		<dc:creator>Daniel de Fran?a MTd2</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Jun 2009 18:42:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.nonequilibrium.net/?p=3044#comment-9184</guid>
		<description>&quot;The more stable, the more people will have time to think about hink in whatever is necessary to justify their.&quot; - And thus it will make the system less protected against instability, because for every justification there is a new perturbation, until the system fail because eventualy a small noble or group will become powerful and try to take over everything.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;The more stable, the more people will have time to think about hink in whatever is necessary to justify their.&#8221; &#8211; And thus it will make the system less protected against instability, because for every justification there is a new perturbation, until the system fail because eventualy a small noble or group will become powerful and try to take over everything.</p>
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		<title>By: Daniel de Fran?a MTd2</title>
		<link>http://www.nonequilibrium.net/meaning-socialism/comment-page-1/#comment-9183</link>
		<dc:creator>Daniel de Fran?a MTd2</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Jun 2009 18:25:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.nonequilibrium.net/?p=3044#comment-9183</guid>
		<description>Dmitri, take a look here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Egyptian_dynasties
Between many dynasties there were a brief periods of social turmoil, and probalby bloody ones. I think it was more likely that a new dynasty was more likely hailed as a ruthless tyrant, and acted as such, then being hailed as a god&#039;s sent massenger. Anyway, I don&#039;t think you can call the non tyrant part as an absolute reing, I bet in the between of dynasties it was more likely a feud, where the king was likely a puppet of nobility and priesthood.

As for the degeneracies, I think for humans in works the other way around. The more stable, the more people will have time to think about in whatever justification to justify their power. In the case of violent transitions of thoecratic dynasties, praising a new god, making new customs and architecutres,it is like a new dynasty is like superimposing a new country. The memory and custumos old times is destroyed or remodeled just like a new conquered territory.

If you look at the list you provided, the democracy overlaps monarchy, and many of the forms of democracy never really existed... As for a republic as an example of monarchy, I was thinking of this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crowned_republic</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dmitri, take a look here:<br />
<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Egyptian_dynasties" rel="nofollow">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/L....._dynasties</a><br />
Between many dynasties there were a brief periods of social turmoil, and probalby bloody ones. I think it was more likely that a new dynasty was more likely hailed as a ruthless tyrant, and acted as such, then being hailed as a god&#8217;s sent massenger. Anyway, I don&#8217;t think you can call the non tyrant part as an absolute reing, I bet in the between of dynasties it was more likely a feud, where the king was likely a puppet of nobility and priesthood.</p>
<p>As for the degeneracies, I think for humans in works the other way around. The more stable, the more people will have time to think about in whatever justification to justify their power. In the case of violent transitions of thoecratic dynasties, praising a new god, making new customs and architecutres,it is like a new dynasty is like superimposing a new country. The memory and custumos old times is destroyed or remodeled just like a new conquered territory.</p>
<p>If you look at the list you provided, the democracy overlaps monarchy, and many of the forms of democracy never really existed&#8230; As for a republic as an example of monarchy, I was thinking of this:<br />
<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crowned_republic" rel="nofollow">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crowned_republic</a></p>
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		<title>By: Dmitry</title>
		<link>http://www.nonequilibrium.net/meaning-socialism/comment-page-1/#comment-9177</link>
		<dc:creator>Dmitry</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Jun 2009 11:16:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.nonequilibrium.net/?p=3044#comment-9177</guid>
		<description>Dear Daniel,

&lt;blockquote&gt;And by this I was trying to say that monarchy is not a nice to characterize a socio political system because of its several degeneracies&lt;/blockquote&gt;

a) to illustrate your point you have listed theocracy (twice) and republic as examples of monarchy; republic is not a monarchy by the way
b) if one takes your physical analogy (energy levels, degeneracy) seriously, one will easily recall that excited levels are typically &lt;em&gt;more&lt;/em&gt; degenerate than the ground state; you may guess correctly that the same hold for political systems, i.e., democracy is more degenerate in your sense than monarchy - you may want to check out &lt;a href=&quot;http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democracy#Forms&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;this article on Wikipedia&lt;/a&gt; and compare it to the one about monarchy
c) Actually, no transitions between &quot;degenerate&quot; states you mentioned happened in Egypt for 5000 years (Egypt was absolute monarchy), neither they happened in China

So, I am not sure why you expected me to take your argument close to my heart.

Cheers,
Dmitry.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dear Daniel,</p>
<blockquote><p>And by this I was trying to say that monarchy is not a nice to characterize a socio political system because of its several degeneracies</p></blockquote>
<p>a) to illustrate your point you have listed theocracy (twice) and republic as examples of monarchy; republic is not a monarchy by the way<br />
b) if one takes your physical analogy (energy levels, degeneracy) seriously, one will easily recall that excited levels are typically <em>more</em> degenerate than the ground state; you may guess correctly that the same hold for political systems, i.e., democracy is more degenerate in your sense than monarchy &#8211; you may want to check out <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democracy#Forms" rel="nofollow">this article on Wikipedia</a> and compare it to the one about monarchy<br />
c) Actually, no transitions between &#8220;degenerate&#8221; states you mentioned happened in Egypt for 5000 years (Egypt was absolute monarchy), neither they happened in China</p>
<p>So, I am not sure why you expected me to take your argument close to my heart.</p>
<p>Cheers,<br />
Dmitry.</p>
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		<title>By: Daniel de Fran?a MTd2</title>
		<link>http://www.nonequilibrium.net/meaning-socialism/comment-page-1/#comment-9165</link>
		<dc:creator>Daniel de Fran?a MTd2</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Jun 2009 20:58:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.nonequilibrium.net/?p=3044#comment-9165</guid>
		<description>And by this I was trying to say that monarchy is not a nice to characterize a socio political system because of its several degeneracies... Bah, forget it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And by this I was trying to say that monarchy is not a nice to characterize a socio political system because of its several degeneracies&#8230; Bah, forget it.</p>
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		<title>By: Dmitry</title>
		<link>http://www.nonequilibrium.net/meaning-socialism/comment-page-1/#comment-9164</link>
		<dc:creator>Dmitry</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Jun 2009 19:00:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.nonequilibrium.net/?p=3044#comment-9164</guid>
		<description>Yep, but the practical question is which mix is healthy and which is not, I guess :-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yep, but the practical question is which mix is healthy and which is not, I guess <img src='http://www.nonequilibrium.net/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Dmitry</title>
		<link>http://www.nonequilibrium.net/meaning-socialism/comment-page-1/#comment-9163</link>
		<dc:creator>Dmitry</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Jun 2009 18:57:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.nonequilibrium.net/?p=3044#comment-9163</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;monarchy is the lowest possible energy level of a State&lt;/blockquote&gt;

I think, this statement just reinforces my argument that monarchy is the most stable social system :-) By the way, I don&#039;t think that republic is really a form of monarchy.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>monarchy is the lowest possible energy level of a State</p></blockquote>
<p>I think, this statement just reinforces my argument that monarchy is the most stable social system <img src='http://www.nonequilibrium.net/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' />  By the way, I don&#8217;t think that republic is really a form of monarchy.</p>
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		<title>By: Daniel de Fran?a MTd2</title>
		<link>http://www.nonequilibrium.net/meaning-socialism/comment-page-1/#comment-9158</link>
		<dc:creator>Daniel de Fran?a MTd2</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Jun 2009 02:42:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.nonequilibrium.net/?p=3044#comment-9158</guid>
		<description>I didn&#039;t see your comment before posting mine. Yes, sure, I agree with you.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I didn&#8217;t see your comment before posting mine. Yes, sure, I agree with you.</p>
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		<title>By: Daniel de Fran?a MTd2</title>
		<link>http://www.nonequilibrium.net/meaning-socialism/comment-page-1/#comment-9157</link>
		<dc:creator>Daniel de Fran?a MTd2</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Jun 2009 02:40:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.nonequilibrium.net/?p=3044#comment-9157</guid>
		<description>I am not sure if we can talk about a dynasty reign as the equivalent as a presidential term. You see, if you think in terms of possible governamental systems, monarchy is the lowest possible energy level of a State, and it allows a lot of degeneracies or variations in the economical level, like tyranny, theocracy, republic, theocracy, and combinations thereof and the most meaningful part, the power distribution. The king might be a god, a puppet, etc... 
So, I am not sure if I can say that monarchy is a measure to the stability at all because it is by itself a degenerate system of different de facto systems.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am not sure if we can talk about a dynasty reign as the equivalent as a presidential term. You see, if you think in terms of possible governamental systems, monarchy is the lowest possible energy level of a State, and it allows a lot of degeneracies or variations in the economical level, like tyranny, theocracy, republic, theocracy, and combinations thereof and the most meaningful part, the power distribution. The king might be a god, a puppet, etc&#8230;<br />
So, I am not sure if I can say that monarchy is a measure to the stability at all because it is by itself a degenerate system of different de facto systems.</p>
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		<title>By: Haelfix</title>
		<link>http://www.nonequilibrium.net/meaning-socialism/comment-page-1/#comment-9156</link>
		<dc:creator>Haelfix</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Jun 2009 22:51:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.nonequilibrium.net/?p=3044#comment-9156</guid>
		<description>Every system is unstable to a certain extent.  Whether communism, socialism, pure capitalism and even regulated mixes like most modern western countries utilize.

Pure capitalism circa the US at the start of the industrial revolution ends up with monopolies that destroy the very spirit of competition.

Communism ends up forming government or bureacratic elites that breaks the egalitarianism of the system.  And so on and so forth.

The systems that are most stable are the pragmatic ones that constantly update themselves to correct these instabilities.  Which is why I believe its very important to never have just one dominant party or one inflexible dogma, but rather a healthy mix that wax and wane in popularity depending on the needs of the moment.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Every system is unstable to a certain extent.  Whether communism, socialism, pure capitalism and even regulated mixes like most modern western countries utilize.</p>
<p>Pure capitalism circa the US at the start of the industrial revolution ends up with monopolies that destroy the very spirit of competition.</p>
<p>Communism ends up forming government or bureacratic elites that breaks the egalitarianism of the system.  And so on and so forth.</p>
<p>The systems that are most stable are the pragmatic ones that constantly update themselves to correct these instabilities.  Which is why I believe its very important to never have just one dominant party or one inflexible dogma, but rather a healthy mix that wax and wane in popularity depending on the needs of the moment.</p>
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		<title>By: Dmitry</title>
		<link>http://www.nonequilibrium.net/meaning-socialism/comment-page-1/#comment-9154</link>
		<dc:creator>Dmitry</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Jun 2009 20:43:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.nonequilibrium.net/?p=3044#comment-9154</guid>
		<description>Dear Daniel,

not really, since, as I said above, monarchy as a governmental system in Egypt (or, say, China) survived for 5000 years (in China - more as they claim). So I have a nice cyclic argument here :-) 

The reason why we have a misunderstanding is that you talk about a single dynasty&#039;s reign (the counterpart of this in the case of democracy would be 4 year term) while I am talking about stability of the System.

Cheers,
Dmitry.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dear Daniel,</p>
<p>not really, since, as I said above, monarchy as a governmental system in Egypt (or, say, China) survived for 5000 years (in China &#8211; more as they claim). So I have a nice cyclic argument here <img src='http://www.nonequilibrium.net/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' />  </p>
<p>The reason why we have a misunderstanding is that you talk about a single dynasty&#8217;s reign (the counterpart of this in the case of democracy would be 4 year term) while I am talking about stability of the System.</p>
<p>Cheers,<br />
Dmitry.</p>
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		<title>By: Daniel de Fran?a MTd2</title>
		<link>http://www.nonequilibrium.net/meaning-socialism/comment-page-1/#comment-9153</link>
		<dc:creator>Daniel de Fran?a MTd2</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Jun 2009 17:06:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.nonequilibrium.net/?p=3044#comment-9153</guid>
		<description>Dmitri, if democracy in US meant killing the family of a president or deposing them by the use of the army , surely, that would be unstable.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dmitri, if democracy in US meant killing the family of a president or deposing them by the use of the army , surely, that would be unstable.</p>
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		<title>By: Lubos Motl</title>
		<link>http://www.nonequilibrium.net/meaning-socialism/comment-page-1/#comment-9152</link>
		<dc:creator>Lubos Motl</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Jun 2009 17:02:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.nonequilibrium.net/?p=3044#comment-9152</guid>
		<description>Why I am not getting these nice e-mails? Is there some address to subscribe?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Why I am not getting these nice e-mails? Is there some address to subscribe?</p>
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		<title>By: Dmitry</title>
		<link>http://www.nonequilibrium.net/meaning-socialism/comment-page-1/#comment-9149</link>
		<dc:creator>Dmitry</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Jun 2009 14:38:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.nonequilibrium.net/?p=3044#comment-9149</guid>
		<description>Yes, sure, and US democracy is unstable since they have to reelect their president every 4 years.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes, sure, and US democracy is unstable since they have to reelect their president every 4 years.</p>
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		<title>By: Lubos Motl</title>
		<link>http://www.nonequilibrium.net/meaning-socialism/comment-page-1/#comment-9141</link>
		<dc:creator>Lubos Motl</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Jun 2009 13:06:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.nonequilibrium.net/?p=3044#comment-9141</guid>
		<description>I was just enjoying fine people in a socialist country called France - which is always pleasant as long as one is standing on the side that is nicely treated by the system and not on the other side, one that has to be exploited to make it work.

It&#039;s not clear to me why I think that the letter would make me go crazy. It&#039;s a great story of a wise professor who may have shown pretty clearly to a gang of slow and bigoted students why socialism cannot work, and the more socialist something is, the less it works.

There are probably many colleges where every class would have to be failed in this egalitarian fashion. More obviously, most instructors at certain schools (and whole departments at many universities, including very famous ones) would have to be failed, too.

Dmitry, it seems that it wasn&#039;t me, but you, who went crazy because of this e-mail because you simply can&#039;t swallow that this story is true, wise, as well as insightful. ;-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I was just enjoying fine people in a socialist country called France &#8211; which is always pleasant as long as one is standing on the side that is nicely treated by the system and not on the other side, one that has to be exploited to make it work.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s not clear to me why I think that the letter would make me go crazy. It&#8217;s a great story of a wise professor who may have shown pretty clearly to a gang of slow and bigoted students why socialism cannot work, and the more socialist something is, the less it works.</p>
<p>There are probably many colleges where every class would have to be failed in this egalitarian fashion. More obviously, most instructors at certain schools (and whole departments at many universities, including very famous ones) would have to be failed, too.</p>
<p>Dmitry, it seems that it wasn&#8217;t me, but you, who went crazy because of this e-mail because you simply can&#8217;t swallow that this story is true, wise, as well as insightful. <img src='http://www.nonequilibrium.net/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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